1991 Interview with Al Bielek

                  Al Bielek, noted lecturer on the famous "Philadelphia Experiment" and the time travel/mind control
                   experiments of the "Montauk Project," recently spoke with The Scribe interview team in Yelm.
                   Bielek gave an update on the current use of mind control and psychic warfare, and also offered a more
                   detailed account of his experience in the Montauk Project. Montauk, also known as the Phoenix
                   Project, used Bielek and his brother Duncan Cameron, to explore the underground cities of Mars.

SS: Regarding your experience on Mars you walked through the time tunnel, you take a step and
you're on Mars: What did you see?

                   AB: Well I was not on the surface of Mars. We were in the underground. The story goes back to the
                   Alternative 3 book, the TV production in England outlining the fact that we have Mars bases, one or
                   more, Provided by a joint operation with the US. government. I do not know if the Russians are in on it
                   - and aliens. They are on the surface bases It's a World Government operation really, that's not strictly
                   the United States government.

                   After they were on the surface which was about 1969, they found that there where entrances to the
                   underground sealed and they knew there was something down there. The rumors were that there was
                   probably artifacts from an ancient civilization buried underground because there were a lot of remains
                   above ground, ruined cities that have been there by NASA's estimates maybe 300,000 years, 250,000
                   years. But they found the entrances all blocked, all scaled off to any underground areas. So the word
                   went back through communications (in the late 70's) to whomever back to the Montauk and Phoenix
                   project, "Can you do anything about this for us? We can't get into the underground of Mars." They
                   said, "Yes, I think we can. Give us some coordinates on the surface of the planet. We'll have to run
                   astronomical computation." Which they did and plugged these all into the computer. They wanted two
                   people to go and it happened to be Duncan and myself.

AB: To corroborate what the other one saw and also in case there was any problems in the
underground. They didn't really know what was down there.

                   So they sent us and we went up there in the underground. [Using the Montauk Time-Space "Tunnel"
                   device, developed as a result of the Philadelphia Experiment. (See Scribe issues 9,13 and 14.)] There
                   was a problem with light. We had to take lighting with us at the time. Lateron, if I remember, we found
                   some of their light sources and turned those on. We found eventually that the last remnants of the
                   Martians, if you wish to call them that, died in the underground between 10 and 20,000 years ago by
                   estimate, and they left everything they had of their civilization underground. We found enormous
                   amounts of statuary which appeared to be religious.

                  AB: Yes. They were quite well preserved. Then we found archives. We found a lot of scientific
                   equipment. We found electronic equipment down there; tons and tons of stuff. And the rumor was also
                   later that ... I didn't recall until Duncan reminded me of it about a week ago. he said, "Don't forget the
                   17,000 metric tons of Martian gold they took out. According to his recollection of it, it was very
                   strange gold. It was 5 times denser than ours. It was worth an unbelievable fortune. Where it went we
                   have no idea, but it was returned to Montauk and from there it went somewhere. There were several
                   authorized trips. And Duncan and I got the bright idea since everything was in the computer let's take a
                   trip or two on our own and do our own exploring. So we did. After the second one it was found out
                   and we were stopped. That was when he got into the archives and found enormous records of the
                   civilization which was buried down there.

                   AB: No. Well he did at the time but I can't remember any of it now. It's a very strange memory. On
                   again, off again, and that part of it was never made clear to me as to what he really found. Right after
                   that we were removed.

                   But I do remember some of the other installations we saw down there. They had very odd, large
                   generators of some type. If you did not see it, I recommend that you go see the movie Total Recall. In
                   fact it was seeing that movie that reminded me of the fact that I had been there. Not the colonies but
                   the shots of the underground where they showed these large, round canisters where the director said
                   these were probably for oxygen generation. I'm not quite sure but we think so. I looked at them and
                   said, "They're not round. They're hexagonal." And I asked myself, "how the hell did I know that?" So
                   that was our view of Mars from the underground. We didn't see hardly a thing of it from the surface.

SS: If I remember the Movie, that's what they melted a lot of ice to create the atmosphere.

                  AB: It was not ice under there. There were oxygen generators and they also had some storage. There
                   was a generating system which apparently the ancients had left. I don't really know much about it. but it
                   was activated before they moved the surface colonies in. They also melted down the polar caps. The
                   rumors are that they used a hydrogen bomb or two for that. I don't know if that's true. But they did
                   melt down a lot of the polar ice so they would have some water. It's still sparse but they have it. The
                   atmosphere is thin but they have atmosphere. And the temperature is warm enough. In the equatorial
                   region they have no problem surviving. It runs about 50o and of course the astronomers have known
                   this for about 50 years or more. It's quite livable in terms of temperature.

                  AB: Unknown form of illumination, after we found out how to turn it on. Some of the power generators
                   are still working. After we turned on the underground lighting we had no lack of light. Otherwise we
                   had to carry our own and portable lighting was not all that effective because we were dealing with
                   larger underground chambers, several hundred feet across high ceiling and portable lights are not very
                   good for a large chamber like that. Eventually we found where they had their own lighting. It was very
                   bright.

                  AB: Not that I remember in the underground. There's more than one face on Mars, by the way. They
                   found several. But I remember the NASA announcements some years ago, about 2 years ago that
                   they're receiving a low frequency radio transmission from Mars. It was about 50 kilohertz, if I
                   remember correctly. Quite a low level indicating the equipment or whatever it was that was generating
                   the RF signal, and it was coded, was quite old and probably nearly worn out, so they were amazed
                   there was anything still coming out of it but it was enough of a signal that they could pick it up and put it
                   through the computer and transcribe it. It was a warning. A warning message to humans not to repeat
                   the mistakes they made.

SS: Do you have any feelings about being on Mars? What were your general impressions?

                   AB: We were digging in there remains of an old civilization that preceded ours and it felt very peculiar.
                   To look at what was left at what was once a great civilization and realize that they literally died there
                   and left everything behind and that eventually the thing shutdown. It was in the underground deliberately
                   apparently was survival because the circle cities had long since been destroyed and they lived down
                   there and stayed there.

                   From what I understand of it, a number of the Martians survived whatever the attack was on the
                   surface eventually took off for Earth and others decided to stay behind on Mars in the underground.
                   And quite literally their progeny eventually died out and the whole race that was left behind on Mars
                   died out. It's rather a strange feeling to realize that the remnants of a race died out in the underground
                   totally. They just left all their hardware behind.

                   SS: In Rod Steiger's book he spoke of March 18th, 1990, as being important dates in the history of
                   the PSI-Corps. That's during those dates their equipment was zapped and all the psychics resigned
                   March 20th. Could you explain all this?

                   AB: Well, basically what had happened was a very strange story. In January 1990 Psi-Corps received
                   some new hardware because NSA has been working on this for years; psionic-type hardware that
                   boosts the mind and its capabilities of people who already have a great deal of capability it becomes
                   quite formidable.

                   They found themselves, after that infusion of new equipment, after learning how to use it, with the
                   capability of locating a picture buried in someone's files anywhere or tracking a missing file or missing
                   information that they had instructions to recover or locate. They didn't do the recovery they merely
                   located it. And how we found out about this was a very interesting story.

                   Back in November of 1989, Duncan had told me, he said that I would have the proof of the
                   Philadelphia Experiment in my hands during March of 1990. Well it seems like during that weekend,
                   that particular Sunday, preceding the walk out, I was in Phoenix. I was out for lunch that Sunday and a
                   phone message was waiting for me that Preston had called and he was in a panic. When I finally got
                   him on the phone it was already too late. But he told me that a person had visited him.

                   You see his father had been a senior scientist in the Navy working on the Philadelphia project. And
                   that before the scientist died he told his son what had happened; that he had certain files and that he
                   was turning them over to his son but he advised his son not to ever tell anyone about it. So this guy,
                   unidentified to me never fold anyone about what he had.

                   One week prior to the visitation with Preston he gets a knock on his door. Government agents. "We
                   want to search your house." "Well what for?" "Get out of our way." And they start tearing his house
                   apart. He knew what they were looking for. He didn't have it there, but he said, "I don't know what
                   you're looking for." And they didn't find it. It took several days. And he shook them. And he went and
                   got his stash of files which contained two roles of film of Rainbow 3 and Rainbow 4 which were the
                   two Eldridge tests plus a stack of papers, still highly classified, apparently, from what Preston said,
                   because they wound up in Preston's hands.

                   So he started calling his friends to see who could take cafe of this and take it off of his hands because
                   the government agents were right behind him about two hours right behind him trailing him. None of his
                   friends would touch it, those that he got through to. And he finally got to the end of a long list of people
                   and Preston Nichols was at the bottom of the list. He called Preston and he was home. He said, "I'm
                   coming over to give you something." "Well what's this all about?" "I'll be there at such and such a time."

                   He goes over and hands him the file and the film and tells him the story about his father and the
                   government agents and so forth. Preston says, "Well what am I going to do with it?" He says, "I don't
                   know. It's your problem now. The government agents are about two hours behind me." He takes
                   Preston out and shows him his car with bullet holes in the door and he says, "I'm getting out of here."
                   And he left.

                   Preston in a panic tried to get a hold of anybody he knew that day, including myself, I was not
                   reachable. Duncan, previous in that morning, got wind of something, due to his psychic sensitivity,
                   something very heavy coming down. lie took off from Preston's, went home, went into his bedroom,
                   locked the door and crawled under the bedsheets until about 5:00 that afternoon. This is a fact. He
                   panicked. He would not even answer the phone. He shut off his answering machine.

                   So this comes down. Preston can't get a hold of me. Finally when he did get through (I called him) he
                   said, "Well I called up NSA and told them I had some very hot material here that I don't want." They
                   asked " What is it?" And he told them. They said, "Well we don't want it." He says "I've got to get rid
                   of this stuff it's black card clearance level: So he said, "Allright we'll send some F.B.I. agents to pick it
                   up. So they eventually arrived and he turned it over the them after verifying that they were F.B.I. He
                   got rid of the whole business. Then I called after that, and I still haven't forgiven him for it. But the
                   interesting connection to get back to your question about the Psi-Corps, is that we finally put together
                   the fact that with the new equipment they were able to identify a photograph if it's in somebody's file
                   and apparently they have standing orders to find any information whatever dealing with the Philadelphia
                   Experiment and make damn sure I didn't get it. And they spotted something and found out who this guy
                   was and they sent out the government agents and this whole story ensued about this man who's father
                   was the senior scientist. And we don't know what happened to it. We never saw it again.

                   In any case, the next day, from information I had, there was a big rumble in the Psi-Corps, and they
                   were warned by somebody on the outside who was a little friendly to us to get the blazes out of there,
                   that all of your installations are going to be melted down, literally. And they were warned to get out. All
                   of them walked out except ten who were brand new recruits who had been told to defend the
                   machines with their lives and they did literally. They died, the rest walked out, out of the government's
                   service and disappeared. There was a panic meeting with the President...

SS: Are these the same ET's that Preston said melted down the buzzsaw antenna at McArthur airport
around the Thanksgiving weekend last year?

                  AB: Yes, basically. And they took care of four sites in the US. one at Fort Meade and there were
                   three other locations. I believe one was Atlanta and another in the New Orleans area and one
                   somewhere in the West. Everyone of them walked out and disappeared. The locations were melted
                   down. The President had a panic, practically apoplexy, tried to call back the old director who was in
                   retirement. He said it was an emergency, we need to talk with you. So he came down to talk with
                   them. I'll only give this man's first name - it's Emil. He was already 90 in age. And they told him the
                   problem. He said, "I'll look at it but I won't give you my answer for about 3 days. I'll tell you then
                   whether or not I'll come back and reorganize this, whole operation for you."

                   In the meantime they contacted NASA to try to get NASA to give up their psychic agents, not
                   Psi-Corps, who are trained for a different mission and are not trained in pairs but individually. NASA
                   told them to go shave it and got away with it. They said, "We're not trained to do the work you're
                   doing. You can't have our people. "So finally on that following Friday, Emil came back to the President
                   and said, "My answer is no. There's no way I'll come back and do anything for you. You're in deep
                   trouble as it is and you're going to be in a lot deeper trouble in about 30 days." And he packed up and
                   left. And I presume that that was the last we've seen of him at least in those quarters.

But the Psi-Corps remained dissolved until ... they tried to recruit new people and they did pick up a
few but nothing like what they had before because it takes 4 years now to train them, it used to be 5.

                   AB: They've been trying to build it back up. Then before the beginning of the so-called Mid-East War
                   with Iraq, they made a deal as part of the situation building up to the declaration of war wherein we got
                   all of the backing from British European nations with the exception of Germany, they went to them as
                   part of the deal and asked the British and French and Russian Governments, who all had their own
                   Psi-Corps, if they would loan again numbers to the U.S. Government for their operations. And they
                   did. They got transfers and built up the whole organization to the original strength overnight.

                   Now they had a little bit of a shock because the new group tried to bring somebody back into their
                   group to run the operation, Emil, and from what I understand, he was spirited out from right out of the
                   midst of them, again by E.T.'s, and they were told this could never happen under any circumstances,
                   that they were ultra-secure in their facilities. That shook them up. They all walked out. They are now at
                   point zero.

AB: That's right. That's the information I have. And the government is left holding the bag once more.
And as far as I'm concerned they Can continue to hold the bag - empty.

                   Psi-Corps organization is not vicious, they are not vicious people, they're very well trained, sensitives
                   and psychics who have a mission. The basic mission has been, in more recent years, not the original
                   one in the first 5-10 years, where they were used for assassination. But they finally drew the line on this
                   when NSA was formed and they became part of NSA in 1949-50 because their original genesis was
                   in 1940 under Harry Bennett under the Roosevelt administration. But they said, "We will not do
                   assassination any more because you have other organizations and intelligence groups that can do this
                   much better than we can so we refuse to do it." But everything else they would still do and that was
                   basically: psychic espionage in this country, outside this country and anywhere on this planet; obtaining
                   information about anything that the government wanted to know that was not obtainable through the
                   normal intelligence channels; or say too many agents got killed or something; let us say they wanted to
                   look at the inside of some super secret Russian or Chinese installation or whatever it may be. The
                   psychics could look inside of it and see what they want. They could read books off their desks, reports
                   off a desk, filch them out of a file.

AB: Yes they could. They could start a fire in a filing cabinet a couple thousand miles away if they
wanted to do that or if were so instructed.

                  AB: Theoretically they could. They could transport small objects. They had their psycho-kinetic ability
                   well trained. It was not that they could move large objects, they couldn't. But small objects like a piece
                   of paper or a small package of paper like a report they could handle. They had a lot of capability.

                   They were also very heavily brainwashed and very heavily let us say, indoctrinated in the government's
                   service and what they were to do and indoctrinated to the point that they totally accepted the protocols
                   under which they operated. And this of course meant that they were loyal to the service, to the
                   government. The only mores and ethics they knew was what the government told them they had and
                   this was implanted. impregnated, conditioned into them to the point where there's hardly an change.
                   I've only known of two people, I will not go into this in detail, who decided to walk out and succeeded
                   in doing so. But when they surfaced it started the largest manhunt in the history of this country to find
                   those two and bring them back into the government's service.

                   Preston saw the police reports, the F.B.I. file reports because the police can came into one of the
                   swap meets, drove right up the aisles where there's not supposed to be any car, virtually pushed
                   people out of the way, stopped right at Preston's exhibit and said, "You're friends with
                   ____________." Preston says "What are you talking about?" "You know what we mean." And
                   Preston looked down on the police car's front seat and there was the F.B.I. dossier and the picture of
                   the individual and the names of both of them they wanted, and if any information is obtained about the
                   whereabouts of these two, I'll not give the names, report immediately to the F.B.I. office in
                   Philadelphia, Pa. They never did catch them. They were much too smart. They knew what they were
                   doing.

                   They also stole a few pieces of government hardware in the process including ... I might as well say it...
                   the government has alternate reality generators, the portable type a person could carry in a small
                   suitcase and they can ship themselves and that suitcase with them into an alternate reality and they
                   cannot be traced. They cannot be found.

                   AB: Park themselves in another universe, so to speak, parallel to our own, very similar to ours as I've
                   gone into in my lectures, the parallel reality thing. The government has the hardware for this, portable.
                   They've had it for years. I don't know how long. And they had it and used it to keep out of sight and
                   they would every so often look in on what was going on and find out the police were there and they'd
                   say, "Well, they can stay there, we'll stay here. "The final outcome was these two people whom I knew
                   from years before under circumstances I won't go into or it might identify them, eventually hitched a
                   ride off planet and took a shuttle. There are shuttles regularly from this planet to Alpha Centauri 4
                   which by agreement is a safe haven for people wanted by the U.S. Government. There's a treaty. It
                   takes about 12 hours to get them. Apparently they took all of their family which meant sisters, brothers,
                   father, mother, whatever, with them. As far as I know they're still there.

AB: Presumably the Alpha Centauri Government, but I don't know. But it's on a regular basis twice a
week. The landing point I have no idea where it is. Of course they guard it secret.

                  AB: Alpha Centauri? Like humans, exactly the same. There's a much lower population on their planet.
                   They're not overpopulated. They're an advanced civilization, a little ahead of us - not a great deal, but
                   somewhat ahead of us. They don't like things like government headbashing and that sort of thing and
                   they way they treat some of the government agents they no longer have any use for or whatever, if they
                   are approached, and I don't know how it's done, if they are approached and asked for asylum, if they
                   issue the card, you just get on the shuttle and that's it, you're there. Beyond that I don't know. I haven't
                   seen them since.

                   That's a very interesting little side issue and our government doesn't like it particularly but there is sonic
                   kind of a treaty and they honor it. Apparently there is that type of treaty with other governments
                   elsewhere, and I gather it is all Earth governments or includes outside governments I'm not sure. I have
                   the feeling it includes outside governments too. There's regular communication, I don't know if Preston
                   went into this about the Super Luminary Communication Systems that were developed by ITT in the
                   1960's. It's another one of those little developments that come out of all of this business evolving from
                   the Philadelphia Experiment and the spin-offs from that and research done by ITT because they were
                   involved in the background of that program to some extent. They were very involved and were the
                   principle contractor for the Phoenix Project, but they also had a lot of other little games also. One of
                   them was building a whole new communication system. This was research based on higher order
                   energies and the effects and the propagation rates and studied all this and found out. "This is all very
                   interesting. With a sixth order energy we can develop a communication system with a propagation rate
                   C6, that's C to the 6th power. They now have one C8, C to the 8th power.

                   AB: C is the speed of light, to the 8th power. That's so fast they can literally communicate clear across
                   our galaxy with nothing more than a phase shifter. There is essentially no delay. With the C' system
                   there was a delay so they went to the 8th. 50,000 light-years across our galaxy and they can do it in a
                   fraction of a second.

                   So Einstein was wrong in one sense. Nothing can go faster than the speed of light? It can. It's long
                   since been done. It was probably done long since he made the statement. Einstein did relent of some of
                   his statements in earlier years before he died but it was not publicly stated that he had.

SS: Speaking of aliens and technology, do you know which aliens Tesla talked to?

                  AB: The Pleiadians basically that was one of his principle communication groups. Also a group called
                   the K group. K stands for Kondrashkin. That's the best literal translation of English. They were sort of
                   light green skinned humanoid like with no hair. If you put them up in the right garb and bleached their
                   skin and put an old fashioned wig on them they'd pass very readily for an Englishman. Not that I'm
                   trying to cast any kind of aspersions on English people but they most readily pass for English. And the
                   dye or powder or whatever they put on their skin didn't last more than two weeks. Then there were 2
                   others and I don't know who they were. When you start calling out into space you don't know who is
                   going to answer. And they did. Tesla knew 11 or 12 languages and I presume these people
                   communicated back in English but I don't know that for certain. I wasn't there I only heard the stories
                   from 2 other researchers who had worked with him before he died. I'm told of the equipment and the
                   fact that he did communicate on an almost daily basis with somebody from the outside.

SS: You mentioned Reichian Programming in your lectures. How would one know if one was hit by it?

                  AB: You wouldn't after it was over. They pulled this system on Duncan once for certain maybe more
                   than once and we have a friend back east who worked in a hospital who's seen the equipment, know
                   what it does and what it's capable of. Preston's checked into the records and found that this particular
                   type of advanced technology, electroshock therapy equipment is what they officially call it. It's now
                   very advanced computerized with floppy disks and very small electrodes instead of the old big patch
                   pads they used to put on people and tape the down. They now have tiny little probes 50 millimeters
                   square and they attach them to certain critical sensitive points on the body, about 8 of them. And
                   there's a computer program they now use which will induce the Reichian orgiastic state by electronics
                   and hold it to that state and in that condition a human mind from conscious to subconscious is
                   completely aligned and opened.

                   Consequently you can remove buried information in the subconscious, reprogram the person, do
                   whatever you want in that sense. And when the program is over they close it down, restore the person
                   to the so-called normal state with either blocks on memory of the whole thing happening or a whole
                   total implant of what went on that day as a substitute to memory or whatever they want to do. They
                   usually put in a substitute memory. It's happened to Duncan once. We had quite a time running that
                   down but we did.

                   They can do this to anyone they want. They grab them physically and take them off to one of the
                   hospitals. The law is that any hospital or institution in the U.S. that accepts federal funding must by law
                   have one of these machines on their premises and there must be certain personnel, very limited, trained
                   in its use. Now it can be used for "nominal" electroshock therapy in the normal mode which doctors
                   use, thought it's much more sophisticated now and less damaging. Or they can use it for
                   reprogramming, the same piece of equipment. But to do the reprogramming requires a special floppy
                   disk, which is kept under lock and key and can only be used by certain government personnel.

                   When they do this number of the reprogramming it's done by government personnel. It is not normally
                   shown [in] their records and there is never a charge made back to a hospital organization or to a
                   hospitalization fund or medical fund of any kind, that is paid for 100% by the federal government and
                   the record's swept under the rug. They put it once on Duncan and they tried to do it again.

                  AB: Oh yes. We had quite a time tracking this down that one Sunday. But they did do that. It's based
                   on Reich's principle, his old theories. The original programming techniques were more physical, but
                   now they can do it electronically. It's much cleaner, so to speak, much easier to accomplish and much
                   easier to cover the tracks. And the law says these instruments, pieces of equipment, shall be made
                   available to non-federally funded institutions. They recommend that they have them, but there's no
                   requirement.

SS: Before going on, how do you feel about all this? Do you want to get revenge on these guys?
Where do you stand personally on this?

                  AB: I would love to get back at some of ... Well, where do I stand? Number one, I feel it's long since
                   time that the public knows the facts about how their government has lied to them practically about
                   everything from politics to science to cover-up of secret projects and the abductions of people by the
                   government, I'm not talking about aliens, by the government for reprogramming - plugging them into
                   special projects against their will. Then when they're done with them they either return them to normal
                   life or deep sixing them in many cases.

                  AB: Oh yeah. I'm very angry about it because they wrecked my life, they wrecked Duncan's life, they
                   wrecked the lives of a number of other people who I knew who were on that project, the original
                   Philadelphia Project. They didn't wreck so many lives from the Phoenix Project in terms of breaking
                   family relations and all this sort of thing. But they did eliminate a number of people who were involved
                   in the Phoenix Project. They were literally killed, some accidentally, some deliberate and otherwise
                   reprogrammed and shipped off to God knows where. And a lot of them were shipped off to another
                   time frame so they never were returned to their original point of origin and live their life out wherever
                   they are, under what conditions who knows.

                   The massive redistribution, if you want to put it that way, of people, reprogramming them is something
                   which is totally alien to our Constitution and our concepts, not only our religious concepts of freedom,
                   hut our political concepts of freedom as we have known it under the Constitution for almost 200 years.
                   The Constitution has existed longer, but I say almost 200 years because these government programs
                   have come into play since about 1947 and they get worse every year and they're not restricted to the
                   U.S. But the U.S. seems to be the most vicious in it, by far the most vicious. The suppression of men
                   and the control of the mass media is by far the worst in the U.S. It's much worse than in Russia. There's
                   more freedom to speak in Russia than there is in this country. I'm speaking of the last year or two not
                   prior.

( Interview provided courtesy of QUANTUM COMMUNICATIONS and The Soverign Scribe).