More on 'Zeitgeist' and the Denial of Christ's Existence
August 1, 2007
More on 'Zeitgeist' and the Denial of Christ's Existence (Aug. 1, 2007)
Subject: re: Zeitgeist Movie
Date: Wed, August 1, 2007
it seems you're being a bit quick to judge Zeitgeist. The first part of the film addressing astrotheology is based largely on the works of Acharya S, Jordan Maxwell, and also the duo who wrote Astrotheology & Shamanism. There is no historical evidence of a person named Jesus whose biography much resembles the character in the gospels... and "Jesus Christ" only appears in the secular historical record as a forged interpolation in the writings of Josephus. Christ is a title, not an individuals name, so there are probably a number of people who could have been called "Jesus, the Christ" just like there are multiple people we would call "President William" or "President George."
The storyline of the Jesus Christ character is the astrotheological story and not the biography of a person. Any inititate who got a messianic title in the mystery schools has no more spiritual significance to any of us than any other well-educated metaphysical teacher. If the movie exposes the actual nature of the savior characters it's useful for helping people to see that religion is a facade and they don't need to be looking for external saviors. The 3rd section of the film delves into the choose love, not fear philosophy, which is a better way of presenting it than attaching it to some religious character.
Thank you for another one of your "informative" letters. You certainly have a knack for buying into the "research" of frauds - like Acharya S. I recall well your observations about Stew Webb were equally astute.
Jordan Maxwell was heard on the film, but I didn't hear him deny the existence of Christ. He was talking about other areas of church indoctrination, Council of Nicea and all that. Maxwell came from a family which included Catholic clergy- Archbishops or Cardinals- I can't remember the details. I don't know for certain, but I don't believe that Maxwell is advancing the idea that Christ never existed.
I certainly appreciate you bringing me up to speed on "Christ" being an honorific title. I might have continued to refer to his parents as "Mr and Mrs Christ" if it wasn't for you. How DUMB I must appeared to other people!
Anyway, you might be interested in knowing that "Acharya" is also an honorific title and not a proper name. It means something like "teacher" or perhaps "sage person". I don't know whether "Acharya S" appointed herself with that title or someone else gave it to her, but I do know that we don't know the woman's real name because she has NEVER REVEALED IT.
I would also be interested in VERIFYING her academic credentials, but that too seems to be somewhat problematic as she is not terribly specific in identifying EXACTLY what degree(s) she possess and from EXACTLY which university could be contacted and would be able to verify her claimed credentials. She says that she graduated from one of the top schools in archeology in Greece, but I never read from her EXACTLY what degrees she possesses, the DATE she obtained her claimed degree, and most important, the NAME under which she acquired her degrees (and indeed whether the school that she claims to have a degree from is in fact an internationally recognized and an ACCREDITED university). And yet this is the person you are ready to accept as 'authoritative' when it comes to the subject of the historical existence of Jesus Christ and throw up 2,000 years of recorded history as "forged interpolation". Remarkable.
I LOVE this line:
"There is no historical evidence of a person named Jesus whose biography much resembles the character in the gospels... and "Jesus Christ" only appears in the secular historical record as a forged interpolation in the writings of Josephus."
Right. Where did you go to school Jed? And were you on a sports scholarship ?
Is this statement something you put together all by yourself or something you plucked from the pages of Ms Acharya S esteemed tomes?
Ever heard of the Roman Empire? How about Pontius Pilate? Ring a bell?
How about Roman historians during the time of Jesus and Pontius Pilate? Did they exist or not? Greek historians? Persian historians? How about the authors of the four gospels themselves, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Also figments of someone's imagination? Or are their writings reflective of "forged interpolations" too?
I don't have the time at the moment to dig up the references to all of the historical documentation by non-Christian and Christian historians detailing the conduct of Jesus Christ while He was alive on earth, but it is robust, substantial and overwhelming (any schoolboy, by the way, could easily find the same information in a city library).
Somehow, I will find the time to refute the ludicrous and unfounded claims by Ms. Acharya S (or whatever her real name is) concerning the "non-existence" of Christ (and Buddha, and Krishna, and Zoarstra, etc., etc.) and expound in greater depth on the writings of many contemporary historians, including the first century Jewish historian, Josephus, to whom you have alluded was engaged in "forged interpolations". Josephus, for your information, has been proven through the grist wheel of time, to be far more accurate in his descriptions of the conditions of his day that some earlier critics had allowed. The fact that the local terrain (and coastlines especially) had changed from what they were in the first century, never occurred to those who chose to call his descriptions into doubt.
Subject: Re: Zeitgeist Movie
From: "Jed Shlackman" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Wed, August 1, 2007
Acharya S is a pen name she gave herself and your description of its meaning is accurate - I know I saw a reference to her real name somewhere but I don't know what it was offhand, it might turn up with a Google search. She mostly references earlier scholars, so if you think she's an invalid scholar
you need to show that her sources are too. Jordan Maxwell and Michael Tsarion both talk about astrotheology... Malik Jabbar also has a series of 4
small books on the "Astrological Foundations of the Christ Myth."
I've read tons about the history of "Jesus" from many sources... the Essene and Gnostic writings, the gospels, the Tony Bushby and Laurence Gardner stuff, the Talmud of Jmannuel, and more... of course Pilate & Herod are real persons from history, yet the secular accounts of them are missing Jesus... you can find persons such as Yeshua ben Pantera and Yeshua ben Joseph referred to historically, but their secular accounts don't present them as the influential character that religious accounts of Jesus Christ do, so it's not accurate to say that the astrotheological Jesus character is synonymous with any single historical person... I don't reject the idea that historical persons were melded with the Christ story... I think that's happened with Buddha, Krishna, Osiris, Thoth, Zeus, Enki, and other religious characters.
The many writings referring to Christianity and it's belief in an historical Jesus who started the movement are not contemporary to the time of Jesus...
there's no secular witnessing to the historical existence of Jesus Christ... Most scholars not biased by religion consider the reference to Christ in
Josephus an interpolation, and that's the only history recorded at the time of Jesus's reported ministry that's been claimed to refer to Jesus Christ...
that's recognized by Christian apologists themselves when they're asked to offer historical evidence of Jesus. There are references to the Essenes but
not Jesus Christ... the Essenes were probably involved in initiating a Christ figure in their order who was given some association with the Christ symbology, but my point was that such a person and any others like him are not synonymous with the astrotheological character and not really relevant
to spirituality beyond what we might gain from the teachings attributed to these "avatars."
I've inserted some more comments in your text below
Whew, you amaze me.
Did you ever consider that the current gaggle of individuals and written references that you present as authoritative are part of a planned, Illuminati-sponsored disinformation campaign designed to convince you (and the world) that Christ was not a real, flesh and blood person? They are bombarding you with misinformation and deception from every quarter, in every possible area of human concern, in order to convince you that up is down and black is white. These people are in the game of reversing your perception of reality. Everything the Illuminati sponsors is a reversal of truth - everything. Every word out of their minions mouths are lies and deceptions. Do you think this is any different?
You're using the most suspicious and least credible people as sources to base your thinking on.
Lawrence Garder: Lawrence Gardner is a shape shifting reptilian Illuminatus of the highest rank (Knights Templar top honcho) who was outed by David Icke years ago. Who in their right mind believes anything that Lawrence Gardner writes? According to Sir Lawrence, the Black Nobility Merovingian blood line of France are the direct, lineal decendants of Jesus Christ Himself who supposedly never died on the cross and had His way with Mary Magdelene of all people! You believe that nonsense?
How can Gardener be denying the existence of Christ in one book and then claim that his satanic relatives are the children of Christ in another?
I haven't read the writings of Malik Jabbar and his series of 4 small books on the "Astrological Foundations of the Christ Myth," but I probably wouldn't take the time to read books that were titled the "Astrological Foundations that Proves that the Sun Doesn't Exist" either.
Acharya S conclusions are staggering to say the least! The burden is on her to prove her ludicrous assertions against a mountain of evidence to the contrary. We will look more carefully at her 'sources' in a future article, but if her lack of substantiation with her academic credentials, along with her unknown birth name, are any indication of the seriousness and care that she gives to such things, then I think we're all in for a bumpy ride indeed..
You speak of the Essenes, Gnostic writings, and the Talmud of Imannuel as if they were accepted fact. I've got news for you. The idea that Christ was past of a group called the Essenes is conjecture. Even the existence of the Essenes group itself is conjecture based on a single source: The Dead Sea Scrolls. However, the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in 1947, leave many doubts and questions in my mind. Sure, the scrolls are roughly 1800 years old, but how do you know that they weren't planted in that seaside cave by an Illuminated White Brtotherhood that has had access to Time machines and alien technology--for decades--for the purpose of snookering us into accepting the British Israel/Armageddon scheme at this time in our history? You have to admit, that the timing of the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery is terribly convenient. I could say the same of the apparent revived interest in Gnosticism. A revival that has been fueled by yet another 'convenient' discovery in 1945, the Nag Hammadi library. Now, here's where we get the really juicy stuff about Christ supposedly having the hots for Mary Magdelene! And much, much more-- the "gospel" of Judas, the "gospel" of Mary Magdelene, etc. etc.- sensuous and lurid anecdotes about the "real" Jesus (by the way, did you know that the Nag Hammadi library came to our attention thanks to the generosity of Mrs Elizabeth Hay Bechtel, of the Bechtel Corporation clan? But that's just a coincidence I'm sure. Nothing to worry about).
You have read Project Blue Beam haven't you? Do you recall the part where the authors explain about the "faked discovery" ruse? Let me paste in a couple of paragraphs direct from the Project Blue Beam text: (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/projectbluebeam25jul05.shtml)
"Engineered Earthquakes & Hoaxed 'Discoveries'
The first step in the NASA Blue Beam Project concerns the breakdown [re-evaluation] of all archaeological knowledge. It deals with the set-up, with artificially created earthquakes at certain precise locations on the planet, of supposedly new discoveries which will finally explain to all people the "error" of all fundamental religious doctrines. The falsification of this information will be used to make all nations believe that their religious doctrines have been misunderstood for centuries and misinterpreted. Psychological preparations for that first step have already been implemented with the film, '2001: A Space Odyssey;' the StarTrek series, and 'Independence Day;' all of which deal with invasions from space and the coming together of all nations to repel the invaders. The last films, 'Jurrassic Park,' deals with the theories of evolution, and claim God's words are lies. (http://i.am/jah/evolut.htm)
What is important to understand in the first step is that those earthquakes will hit at different parts of the world where scientific and archaeological teachings have indicated that arcane mysteries have been buried. By those types of earthquakes, it will be possible for scientists to rediscover those arcane mysteries which will be used to discredit all fundamental religious doctrines. This is the first preparation for the plan for humanity because what they want to do is destroy the beliefs of all Christians and Muslims on the planet. To do that, they need some false 'proof' from the far past that will prove to all nations that their religions have all been misinterpreted and misunderstood."
Did you notice the part that says that in order to discredit fundamental religious doctrines, they will utilize "false proofs from the past". Do you think that maybe the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hammadi library, and the "recently" discovered Talmud of Immanuel - and all the 'revelations' they contain about the Hugh Hefner version of Jesus Christ and his senuous ways- may be part of that set up?
"Pilate & Herod are real persons from history, yet the secular accounts of them are missing "
Really? Wouldn't Pilate's biographer and Roman historian be considered the source of a "secular" account?
"The many writings referring to Christianity and it's belief in an historical Jesus who started the movement are not contemporary to the time of Jesus...
there's no secular witnessing to the historical existence of Jesus Christ..."
Utterly and patently untrue. I will refute this statement in another article devoted to examining the Archarya S allegations.
"Most scholars not biased by religion consider the reference to Christ in Josephus an interpolation, and that's the only history recorded at the time of Jesus's reported ministry that's been claimed to refer to Jesus Christ... that's recognized by Christian apologists themselves when they're asked to offer historical evidence of Jesus"
You're nuts. There is no "interpolation" of the life of Jesus by Josephus. The man was born 4 years after Christ was crucified and had intimate, first hand testimony from people who knew Christ while on earth. In a future essay, I'll review what Josephus had to say about Christ along with many other first century and contempoary writers that prove beyond any doubt that Christ was real and was here on earth-just like the New Testament says. .
Date: Wed, August 1, 2007
I've been reading your site for about four years. I even ordered an Al Bielek tape from you several years ago. Anyway, if Zeitgeist is just a phony bunch of bull, then why even discuss it? Why not just ignore it? The more controversial attention you give Zeitgeist, the more likely people are to seek it out and find out what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine you don't know this. However, I would like someone to investigate the claim that the lives of Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, and many others, all had similar storylines, if not nearly exact storylines, as the life of Jesus. If Horus lived in approximately 3000 BC and his life storyline is proven to be nearly identical to the storyline of the life of Jesus, does that not tell us something regarding this story? Of course, if the storyline of the life of Horus, and other characters mentioned in the film, are proven to be nearly exact replicas of the life of Jesus, it does not necessarily mean that Jesus did not exist.
It may however, mean that the storyline in and of itself was simply transferred to Jesus at the appropriate time by Pliny the Younger or Josephus or whomever and the gospels were woven from the myth of Horus and were then simply integrated into a new character to be exploited by the newly formed Universal (Catholic) church of Rome. My personal feeling is that the "story" itself is all that is real and that the astrological claims can be investigated and proved or disproved. Jesus most likely lived during the time stipulated by the church, but his life history was simply attached to him at the appropriate time after his death which may have been staged by the Romans in order to perpetuate the storyline. But again, how does one go about proving or disproving with absolute certainty the claims of Zeitgeist, the claims of the Roman Catholic Church, the claims of Ken Adachi, my claims, or anyone's claims? Proving anything to one's complete satisfaction is nearly impossible, so I guess we will all have to muddle through and figure it out on our own. Again, I ask, why are you giving this film any attention whatsoever? I hope you don't see this letter as an attack, but as stimulus to investigate and prove, or disprove, the claims made in the first part of the film. The rest of the film, I think, we can all agree to without much debate.
Tim, in Atlanta
I'm addressing the film because it's being widely distributed over the internet as a "must see" film. Haven't you received e-mails urging you to watch it?
I'm putting in my two cents because I want people to realize that it's a PROPAGANDA film masquerading as a 911 expose 'documentary'. If you don't alert people to the deception being put on them, then they are more likely to succumb to that deception. You don't affect the course of a propaganda campaign by ignoring it, you mitigate its damage by CHALLENGING it. How do you suppose that liars are exposed as liars? Someone took the effort to EXPOSE and refute their lies.
You also don't appreciate the subtle, but continuous INCULCATION of false knowledge by REPEATEDLY hearing that false information being presented over and over again. This is Propaganda 101 straight out of Mein Kampf. Hitler said that the biggest of lies will eventually be accepted by the masses if you just repeat them often enough. People absorb lies SUBCONSCIOULY by repeated exposure.
The growing number of books that have come out in say, the last 7 or 8 years that attempt to depict the life as Christ as a "myth" is NOT an accident. It's a PLANNED effort to debunk the existence of Christ. This film is just one more cog in that propaganda campaign.
That's why I'm talking about it. The Truth will set you free.
Subject: Re: zeitgeist
Date: Thu, August 2, 2007
Any chance you will investigate and prove that the storyline of Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra, and many others listed in the film are in
fact complete fabrications, and that the story of Jesus is in fact the one true story and that all other storylines attributed to the above mentioned
characters were attributed to them within the past 1900 years or so, i.e., at some point after the death of Jesus. Again, I am not saying that Jesus
did not exist, only that the storyline of Horus, if proven to predate Jesus by approximately 3000 years would bring into question the storyline of the
life of Jesus. Such challenges to the life of Jesus should be met head on and refuted with cold hard verifiable evidence, documentation, etc.
Also, I know of at least one Ph.D astronomy and physics instructor at Geogia Tech that may, repeat "may," be willing to investigate the historical
astronomical claims of the film, since there are computer models that can calculate the positions of the stars at the time of the birth of Jesus.
Such refutations of films such as Zeitgeist would go a long way toward proving that the historical life of Jesus is a unique chronology and that
all other similar storylines and characters were perhaps fabricated AFTER the death of Jesus. If you do not have the time, then I understand.
Also, not related to the above issue, have you heard anything regarding Al Bielek? Is he still alive? If so, is he living in Ft. Myers, FL?
You make some very cogent points here. There's no way that I have the time to look into these other names because I don't really have the time to devote to the Christ deniers, but I'm doing it to some degree because I think that it's too important to let it go unchallenged.
I only wish that established academic scholars in this arena would step forward and confront the questionable attempts at historical revisionism by a growing cadre of supposed "researchers" like Acharya S. I've been getting catalogs in the mail from Adventures Unlimited books for years and I've noticed that the section of the catalog devoted to these types of books , e.g. exposing the "myth" of Christ and other historical spiritual leaders, is expanding at an alarming rate. I do not for a single second believe that this is occurring as a natural unfolding of events. I see a planned propaganda campaign being installed here and I can't help but think that the publishers of Adventures of Unlimited are part of that plan on some level.
As you say, the idea is to meld the "story line" of the life of Jesus to match the "story line" of other well known names in ancient texts, thus leading the reader to conclude that ALL of these historical figures - including Jesus- are of a similar "story line" compilation and therefore, they are all "myths".
What I see is an attempt to orchestrate a "story line" that fits the Illuminati's (who are Luciferians remember) plan to eliminate Christianity from the face of the earth and to install Satanism as the world's only 'religion'.
I'm not comfortable with coupling the names of Egyptian deities with those of Hinduism. Krishna, in my opinion, is the Real Deal and is indicative of a sincere and honest spiritual group who desire to advance the trajectory of humanity towards a closer union with God.
Egyptian deities, on the other hand, are a whole different ball of wax. These people had been dominated and influenced by extraterrestrial aliens (the same 'folks' who built the Great Pyramid at Giza) who had led the ancient Egyptians to think that their alien leaders were "gods". The Egyptian deities therefore, much like Greek "mythological figures", have a lot of 'issues' with human emotions -jealousy, rage, revenge, anger, sexual desire, ego, one-upsmanship, etc., etc. These are the same 'issues' that dominate the Illuminati today (and their subgroups), who tend to admire and emulate those rituals and beliefs of ancient Egypt, including sun worship, erecting obelisks, the right and Left Eye of Horus, and a fascination with the drawing of a bundle of straight wooden sticks, lashed together with a axe head sticking out its end, and labeled a "fascia" -- from which we derive the word "fascists". You can see a remnant of the fascia symbol stamped onto current issue US dimes (where the axe head has been replaced by a flame), but you will see the original axe head symbol fascia stamped on older US dimes. You can also see the axe head fascia symbol displayed on either side of the Speaker of the House in Washington D.C.
Let me know if the Georgia Tech guy puts up anything to rebut our "Astrotheology" promoters. Would love to see what he has to say.
More on the Captivating Charms of Acharya S (July 12, 2008)
Eric Dubay & The Captivating Charms of Acharya S (July 9, 2008)
Zeitgeist The Movie helps the New World Order - A Forum Posting (Feb. 21, 2008)
Revisiting Zeitgeist, the Movie (March 18, 2008)
Movie 'Zeitgeist' - Illuminati Critique Or Psy-Op? by Henry Makow (Sep. 16, 2007)
'Zeitgeist' the Movie (July 31, 2007)
Dr. Steven Greer, Take Six & Comments on 'Zeitgeist' (July 27, 2007)
Nowhere To Run Zeitgeist Challenge responds to Acharya S (June 15, 2008)
Zeitgeist the movie: Truth Exposure or psyops?
The Zeitgeist hoax
Take the Zeitgeist Challenge 1
Take the Zeitgeist Challenge 2
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